Strangely, this new review is not displayed when you select the review folder on the homepage. I suppose what Im saying (badly) is that the Discrete was true to the file it was being fed and I did enjoy hearing it allowed me to pull small details out of the mix Jazz at the Pawn Shop (DSD128) felt more lifelike and in the room than I am used to and raw tracks such as Phutures Acid Trax did sound rougher and really basically recorded. Main Menu My first serious audio system was Garrard turntable, Fisher Int(SS), ADS bookspeaker bought on 1978. I have the Berkeley Alpha Reference DAC, waiting for an upgrade. For example, the chassis for the products are made from North American-sourced metals, and then that is machined using Haas CNC machines that are built in California. You already have a very top tier DAC. Sablon Audio King/Prince power cords throughout. The remainder I expected a lot better. The MSB Discrete, as I mentioned, came with two power supplies but you can operate it with just one with the supplied doodad. To me, the instrumental timbre seems more accurate with DAVE than any other DACs I've heard. I'll take a look, however I've heard they're on the warm side? From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates. Up to 8X DSD MSB thrives off the innovation required to meet consumer demands. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. I think people buy what they like. As a contented Qutest user, I would have hoped for "improved", performance from the Dave. This is how MSB describe these modules: Its best to think of our DAC modules as a black box: the modules take the raw digital data in and output a continuous voltage. Thank you for posting! You'd expect Audiosanctuary to understand what a gutless amp sounds like, and at least put a headphone amp in front of that DAVE, if they wanted to sell people either the DAVE or the headphones. And if I had to guess (given I haven't heard both), I'd guess it outperforms the Tambaqui. The USB module is completely electrically isolated and is again a standalone module capable of 32 bit#768kHz, MQA decoding and 8X DSD. This kind of sound really appeals to me and was really excellent to experience on lots of tunes, but was especially evident on tracks from Rumours with every part of the mix being identifiable as unique. If you currently have an MSB DAC or amplifier that you lovebut are looking to experience more from your systemplease reach out to your local dealer. Watts is avidly not reading this in anticipation of the video version he won't watch. Anyway, the little bit of extra detail on the strings, the attack, and decay are all there to be heard and its a marvelous thing to listen to. I mean is it audibly noticeable? The headamp is powerful but not involving. However, to get this level of separation and detail within the soundscape the DAC is clearly having a very important role to play. You are using an out of date browser. Dave gets a "thumbs up" overall from me though. This is a very odd one to describe but came to the fore on tracks like Pan Eros from World Of Drums and Percussion. I think my DAVE sounds great with everything. I had the DAVE for 3years, it is an amazing DAC. You might want to consider adding one of Chord's Upscalers, either Hugo M scaler , or the Blu Mk. There are separate optimal PCM and DSD modes for playbacks and bit perfect playback is how DAVE performs optimally as the FPGA up samples and noise shapes everything to 104MHz 5-bit. What effect does reconstruction filter have? We feel Out of all of the DACs I've I don't have that kind of money. 2 DAC | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya G2 Series 2 | 4 JL Audio Fathoms | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech Classic 550L jumpers, Shunyata PCs / Eth. This ranking is just my subjective thinking. When I have done the comparison with other DACs I have had at the same time - Ayre QX5-Twenty, EAR Dac 4, exasound e32 - often the immediate impression is that DAVE/Blu 2 is not quite as good - a bit dryer sounding, not quite as smooth, not as airy or three dimensional And yet, over the longer term, it is deeply satisfying at a musical level in a way that the other DACs are not. I've tried it in my system and I don't like it. Do diamonds shine on the dark side of the moon? Once you add the second discrete PS, and a module or two for it to work, the price goes over $23-24K. Well, you may not have heard a lot of high-end DAC's in your system, but the one's you've listed are pretty darned good. StereoNET (Australia) is part of an international network of publications owned wholly by Sound Media Group (Australia). The Prime DAC Module. It is not hard to audition these DACs in Melbourneand this is your best way to work out your own preference. I still did not found better audio source. So, essentially, around the back of this DAC we have XLR output modules, dual power inputs (more on this in a moment) the digital input module (XLR, RCA, and two optical), and the USB input. It's pretty funny how everyone gives their personal pet recommendation with the utmost confidence that the buyer will like it. It will kick your ass. "To be 100% honest we have A/B tested most of the dacs mentioned CH Precision mono dac with clock and 3 power supplies (7 boxes)----its more spendy---$150k, Merging Technologies NADAC w/power supply and clock---much better now with the clock and power supply upgrades than my previous experience.----around $60k. Please specify coaxial S/PDiF or optical S/PDiF. I hear the new Ayre QX-5 Twenty gives the DAVE a run for its money at $8950 but that is just hearsay. I would say go for one of the other MSB ModelsThe Reference is half of the Select dac and the premier and discrete dacs are stunning performers for their price level Just in case it's not obvious, toetapaudio is a Mola Mola Dealer. The MSB Renderer was developed using an in-house hardware design running an ultra low noise A5 processor for optimal audio playback performance. The SQ is amazingly good. Whatever, the Discrete is a superb bit of kit that Id really love to take up residence in the system on a permanent basis, but thats not going to happen. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. Its not bombarding you with information, but it is a notably more defined sound with regards to the spatial information and the way that elements sit in the mix a tad more solidity and more of a sense of the stereo image being wider and deeper and with instruments and sounds occupying a definite space of their own. Theyre not limited by audio formats, sample rates, or even speed. It is a pretty DAC but usability is left behind. For such a high entry price I wouldn't take the gamble to go on some recommendation by a stranger whose tastes I don't know. It may not display this or other websites correctly. It is not hard to audition these DACs in Melbourneand this is your best way to work out your own preference. Regardless if the buyer has never auditioned the unit, and found it corresponding to, Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / Empirical Audio reclocking system: Synchro-Mesh Reclocker driven by Dynamo Linear Power Supply, 2 x Reference BNC digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Less is More (LIM) DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors, on Sound Anchors Signature stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers / Cables: ZenWave Audio D4 interconnects, ZenWave SMSG speaker cables / Diverse Herbie's Audio Lab footers / Acoustic treatment: Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties (wool, polypropylene basketweave), Sure absolutely agree that paying that much money without auditioning (preferably in my house, with my own equipment, in my room) does not make much sense. I'd also look at the Mola-Mola Tambaqui and the new dCS Bartok. there are others I know about but Ive not heard them recently. Rori is definitely welcome. The demo model came in brushed aluminium but you can also get black. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites. How does it compare? Directstream, Bricasti M1, Jeff Rowland Aeris, Chord Dave, and today I There ain't no Coupe deVille hiding at the bottom of a Cracker Jack Box. While were committed to long lasting products that hold their value, we realize audio systems are always evolving. You are using an out of date browser. Always use!! The sonic signature is detailed and yet easy to listen to, with the Discrete bringing a sense of the recordings scale (big or small) to the listening experience. If you take a look at their website you will see that the machining shop is a fully equipped facility designed to meet the needs of a company producing high-quality cases in which the electronics will be fitted no off the shelf or cheap bent metal cases here! MSB are an American brand headed up by the brothers Jonathan and Daniel Gullman and located in Silicon Valley, California where they design and build a range of amplifiers, transports, and DACs. Fully agree that it could come down to personal preference @RoriHope you have arranged auditions. The modular nature of MSB products allows you to have the bits you want and leave out those you dont, The display is a bit basic but it does what it needs to and you can see it from the other side of the room, Detail and transparency are the main features, Allows a real insight into the makeup of a track, Brings a sense of timing being bang on the money, Detail isnt a result of the higher frequencies being artificially pushed, Both PSUs are not absolutely necessary but once you remove one you want to put the other back in. I agree with your statement. It's better than the MSB Analog I listened to. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Click to expand. I hate to repeat myself, but there are no absolutes in audio, only preferences. We can operate our current DAC modules at up to 6 MHz for PCM and up to 50 MHz for DSD. And now that my system is much more resolving, it's possible that the differences could be larger and my preferences could change. I believe it comes down to Guess what I am trying to say is: preamps are important. Thirdly, having suggested that the brightness issue may lay elsewhere, I will shortly post a suggested tweak directly to both HMS and DAVE - that I have found to increase the "weight", "solidity" and "analogueness" of the resulting sound. I did have the BADA Ref in my system for a short audition, and the Trinity And CH Precision C1 for a longer stay during a previous iteration of my system. Check out the awards + accolades. You must log in or register to reply here. Paired with performance increases, our modular design ethos increases flexibility for future updates and product support, guaranteeing a long-term product investment. Get a Lampi Golden Gate Dac and match it with the RK5u4g rectifier and PX25 DHTs or the RK242 DHT. After a year of listening to various components I'm content. This leaner and cleaner edge has the effect of adding a level of perceived detail to the listening experience. The only other items in the chain were the Stack streamer and a pretty well-sorted network setup. As the noise in my system keeps getting lower, the PM2 keeps reaching deeper to find even more musical engagement and purity in standard 16/44 files. My friend who owns the Diamond DAC IV prefers the MSB. The reasoning behind the two clocks dealing with different frequency families is that music is mostly recorded within multiples of the 44.1kHz family or the 48kHz family and having a clock dealing with each family minimises loss. Put simply, your DAC is ready for the future. This all-American theme is continued in the companys PCB Shop where they use circuit boards produced for them in Silicon Valley, which are then made ready for the automated adding of the smaller components and hand-fitting bulkier components before washing and inspection. I don't understand why Chord DACs have to be so damn ugly! connection because it eliminates some parts and gets you closer to a direct But of course, I love window shopping and perusing top tier systems including illustrious more familiar gear like Lampi, TD, MSB, Ares Cerat, Aqua. I cant help with comparisons of two of these DACs, but I did hear the Tambaqui up against the dCS Bartok and it was a pretty close call, but ultimately the dCS sounded more analogue and more immersive.However, this was at a time when both units were a similar price. He liked the Mola Mola Tambaqui over these others listed below. Our products include our in-house designed viton feet, but any audiophile M6X1 foot can be installed to personalize your system. Thanks. What did you think with the Chord Dave vs Emm Labs Dac2x? It could sound analytical or hot coupled with bright combination of speaker and amplifier. and this is borne out in the sound that this DAC brings to the party. There's 340 pages packed with HiFi Reviews, Industry Interviews and much more. As the topic suggests, looking for comparisons on the above Dacs from people who have atleast heard and compared 2 of these dacs. Others might disagree but these are my findings. You could spend less and get close to the sound of this DAC, for sure. MQA decoding In that price range, you would be mad not to addthe MSB Premier DAC to your list as well. Much appreciated. And this level of detail the MSB Discrete brings to the listening experience was carried through everything I listened toand I listened to this DAC a lot, with it being the only thing I used to for a solid two weeks. I think is a good general rule of thumb, but there are some very transparent passive pre-amps out there. California crafted in-house from an aluminum billet, the enclosure feels solid yet refined. I own the MSB Select II with the dual powerbases and 33 Femto Clock. I'm really anxious to hear more opinions about this DAC and noticed that DAVE hasn't got a thread of its own (only together with Mojo). There seemed to be a little more separation of instruments in the mix of whatever I was listening to than with the LAB12 DAC and Pre in the signal path and a slightly leaner edge to the music more clearly etched, perhaps? connection to the dac chip. https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9eh61-lampizator-pacific-da-converters, https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/lampizator-pacific-dac/, https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/subjective-grading-of-dac-that-i-had-heard-during-last-one-year-period. I would just add budget and the other components in the system are major factors to consider. Equipped with high-visibility and a wide viewing angle, the display is both easy-to-read and stunning, exhibiting our love for intuitive features. It is worth every penny. Once you start playing a tune the DAC works out the sample rate and chooses the correct playback clock. First I want to say that I fully agree that the hobby is Did you audition all of them in the same place with the same system? I have listened to MSB Analog DAC and Diamond DAC IV but not in the same setup as DAVE. MSB Technology [Select DAC II Full Option] Chord [Dave] Myek [Manhattan II] I had A-B test about 2 months. I can only comment on the Emm labs, if u can get a DA2 I think you will be happy "An audiophile is only done when they go to the great brick and mortar store in the sky" Ron Resnick Impedance 100 Low Gain setting. I understand that audio stores and distribution companies have the opportunity to A/B a significant amount of equipment. Were honored to be recognized by the industry for bringing you the most lifelike sound we can. Wavedream only has a couple hours on it, but from the first note it It is a manual step which I forgot. I may need to reset expectations a bit lower: This is an update to some old DAVE vibration control posts. I called the distributor and we went through everything again. The Discrete DAC, The Premier DAC, The Reference DAC, The Select DAC II, Theater Master. At MSB, we believe excellence is a promise worth keeping. has 20 hours on it. The in-house discrete design is then constructed into its own shielded CNC pocket for optimal isolation. It may not display this or other websites correctly. I could easily live with any of these. digital 149728-117859 MSB select II vs all dacs ? There are so. The Chord DAVE was also on my list, but I decided to pass (my Chord retailer was very 'pushy' and not helpful). digital front ends. Right now my favorite music player is from the same manufacturer of the Phasure NOS1a DAC: Stealth LPS running XXHighEnd software; again with the same caveat that I haven't heard a lot of the other highly regarded music players in my system. had if for 2 years now. subjective to a point and that is why we do blind testing and A/B testing with This puts it up against some serious competition! I submit dealers use the statement "component X competes against much more expensive components" far too often. I'm looking for suggestions on DACs I should listen to as possible replacement of my Chord Dave. The DAVE is very resolving, but thinner tonally in comparison to the EMM Labs. Australian Business Number 38 650 151 296, Digital Sources, DACs, and Computer Audio, Chord Dave vs Mola Mola Makua/Tambaqui vs Emm Labs Dac2x vs Rockna Wavedream. Very resolving, tone is on the cold side of neutral but otherwise pretty free of digital nasties compared to the cheaper Chords, and the stage is flatter than Keira Knightley. There is no dark magic involved. Firstly, that was a very impressive list of high end components you have listened to. I'm looking for suggestions between $10K - $12K. Stay updated on Bloom Audio at their. a year ago I got the new Renderer V2 which was a step up over USB. johndoe21ro T&A Dac8 (for DSD512) or Lampi Atlantic for any native rate DSD playback. You might want to consideradding oneof Chord's Upscalers, either HugoM scaler, or the Blu Mk. You are using an out of date browser. in this forum and they are all very good dacs. fake by any means necessary jacket. I have had Dave in my system. With two prime DACs, we yield an unprecedented level of detail, reproducing the musicality, soundstage, and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you. Well this is going to set the cat amongst the pigeons for sure. By Up to 4X DSD The Dave is VERY lovely on PCM, and pretty decent on DSD, but DSD is not its raison d'etre. Just go for an internal Asus card to fit in a PCI slot you should be able to get bit perfect optical output thanks for confirming suitability of current setup. Is this what passes for high end? I was upgrading it in this order and still could not believe every time it sounded better. Tellurium Silver Diamond USB and Chord Blu. Superior conversion begins with clean and stable low-noise power. If I got a great $20K DAC for less, I would not object. https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/a-dac-that-crushes-price-vs-performance-ratio. I do however like the i2S connection better than any other Did I mention the remote is perfect? https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-rothschild-70aab85/, Headphones and Personal Audio with Pitch Perfect Service. comes down to knowing what you are actually trying to achieve in a high end I cant help with comparisons of two of these DACs, but I did hear the Tambaqui up against the dCS Bartok and it was a pretty close call, but ultimately the dCS sounded more analogue and more immersive, I have heard the Dave and EMM Labs DAC2x up against aMakua that I subsequently purchased. Rori sounds like a more transparent Chord Dave to my ears. Thanks. Whats Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. No matter what ice cream you prefer, I prefer something else. The MSB Discrete DAC is an American made Digital to Analogue Converter costing 11,000 plus an extra 1650 for the second external power supply. However, its also very nice to listen to in this system, though I would say it is more accurate/true to the original DAC than our LAB12 DAC or perhaps our Lampizator BIG 7. Tailored for both the transport and the DACs daily use, our remote brings you closer to the music you love. 1 - MSB Discrete 2 - dCS Bartok 3 - Mola Mola Tambaqui 4 - Chord DAVE (add the M Scaler later) 5 - Keep my Ayre QX-5 Twenty, do nothing Thanks! I'm not an absolutist, and frankly, I could be happy with any of the DACs I mentioned. I dont know as that was years ago and I dont have one here to test against. To each their own, but I think Chord sounds cold and artificial. I thought the DAVE was just as stunning with DSD as PCM. Since this forum is mainly USA based and we are in the UK, I have very little to gain business wise here. This one has similar sound signature to MSB Premier But it is half notch below MSB Premier on dynamics, details, soundstage. Analogue Volume Control 1dB from 0 to 106 Deactivable by menu, Dimensions ChassisWidth : 432 mmDepth: 305 mmHeight without feet: 51 mm. What ice cream do you prefer? @smodtactical I would not take price as any arbitrator of quality, especially nowadays. Others might disagree but these are my findings. I auditioned a DAVE (not deconstructed) and TT2 and found all Chord products lacked the musicality of MSB. as my Select II sits it would list for $116,450. I say take what everyone post when a grain of salt, because an individual's preference may be different than yours. I suppose that the vast majority of people who listen for pleasure at home are looking for a balance between the two, and whilst I still maintain we are most likely to hear the biggest effect in a system by changing transducers, every element in the chain of sound will affect the final sound and, in a digital system, I think the DAC you choose can have a huge effect on the final sound. II cannot do anything but award this DAC our highest award, but that award goes with the caveats that it should be used directly into an amplifier and that Id like to have had the options for analogue inputs. This is a company that is All American and fiercely proud of that fact. The video cannot be shown. I haven't heard MSB or theDenafrips DAC. How r they comparing to the MSB Select 2 and Trinity? You'll be shocked by how much you lose by going through a separate preamp. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. Sonically it is very much as its name suggests and converts files faithfully and without loss or (importantly) embellishment. Since opening our doors in 1986, weve been driven by one goal: to craft an unrivaled listening experience for music lovers across the globe. home system and listening for that end result. A modular I/O card keeps even the discrete DAC flexible, repairable, and upgradeable. Bespoke Audio Ultimate Silver TVC passive preamp, Totaldac xlr version D1-Drivers x2, Eisteddfod 340 & 840 amps, Magico S5 speaker, MSB Select DAC, MSB Select Transport, Nakamichi 700 XLE cassette deck, Taiko Audio Extreme Server, Tripoint Troy Signature NG groundbox, PLiXiR Elite 1500 isolation transformers. The next module is the display which is a cool and easy-to-read LED that is slaved to the audio clock. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Thanks for the interesting reply, cmarin. For some folk, a highly resolving and accurate system may well be described as being over-analytical, and on the other side of the audio fence, some will suggest that some systems sound nice but flawed. Funny how Rob Watts drones on and on about noise modulation, and then we see his product performing like this.. now one might not exactly call this noise modulation, but it definitely something to avoid, especially given the price tag. Sound Media Group Pty Ltd. All Rights Reserved. The BADA Ref is a great DAC and I understand the new version takes it to even another level. It would have been a different outcome though with the Cyrus pre-amp I previously owned, which cast a veil over everything. In comparison to spdif which feels more 3D but relatively smaller sound stage, with better separation, vocals are more focused/accurate, everything sounds more evenly balanced. The SQ from DAC headphone output is lower than the best headphone amplifier but that kind of amplifier costs close to DAVE itself. @ricred1, I would like to suggest you take a look at the Mola Mola Tambaqui when it arrives later this month I understand. Still, it's the way I prefer at this stage. Playing Gil Scott-Heron and Brian Jacksons Your Daddy Loves You from the Winter in America album gave me the same impression of a reach-out-and-touch soundscape with incredibly well-defined positions in the mix and a whole load of detail the over-driven sound of the electric piano at around a minute forty really stood out as being faithful to the recording; a case of high-fidelity highlighting a low-fidelity artefact? Wherever I read I see unanimous praise for the MSB Select II. For the most part, I used this input and for a quick comparison one of the optical inputs. They both use FPGA for their decoding. auditioned the Rockna Wavedream Edition DAC. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. I've yet to see a system with direct connections eliminating the preamp which wasn't improved by a adding a good preamp back into the mix! Links may be used, provided that full and clear credit is given to Hifi Pig and Big Pig Media with appropriate and specific direction (link) to the original content. Is it too hot to touch? However, the extra PSU does add to the cost considerably! Hope to try different formats on both DACs to see what works best in my system. Different songs will sound better with different sources - Different horses for different courses. The world's largest high-end audio community. Personally, I think that both these standpoints have their merits and its going to be a case of you paying your money and you taking your choice. The Discrete DAC uses two of these modules per unit. Conversely, you could spend a lot more and not gain a great deal in real terms. The Chord Qutest DAC has the same DAC architecture and filters as the Chord Hugo 2. At some point you have to be content in this hobby. will every hear. Click here to download your copy, At 11000 plus taxes as tested the Lampizator Big 7 is certainly no budget DAC, but does it deliver on sonic ability? Will do. The best upgrade for Dave easy. Concluding that there is some kind of problem with using an FPGA vs. what MSB does is not technically supportable. I like all this attention to detail and the MSB website suggests a company that is massively proud of its American heritage and of the products they make. Sent from my SM-G928V using Computer Audiophile mobile app. Too objective for subjectivists; too subjective for objectivsts. All in all the Discrete DAC is beautiful looking, minimal, easy to set up (its all but plug and play if you turn both the PSUs on) and it feels like a proper bit of audio engineering. in this forum and they are all very good dacs. Like the rest of the main body of the DAC and the PSUs, the remote is hewn from a block of aluminium. Thanks for the suggestions Wisnon. Some silly sausage plugged a white power cable into a black device. It's my understanding that the Wavedream only I wanted to know for anyone who has heard it have you also heard a DAC that approached it in sonic performance? As it stands, the Discrete offers a very good solution should you be a music lover that plays only digital files and you can go straight into a power amp. Like x 5 List HiFiMan Ananda, SR Orange fuses, Taiko Audio Daiza platforms, Startech FMC optical network link, Oyaide EE f/s2.0 V2 mains spurs, Akiko Audio tuning sticks, GIK Acoustic TriTraps/panels. Im sure it does have a flavour of its own, but from my standpoint, it sounds like a very neutral and transparent DAC. Any specific reason you wanna replace the Dave? Some very good advice here. The only thing that I'd really like to see added here is an Aries Cerat. But dont take our word for it. That's just too money for the performance. I don't want to waste hifi shops time too much knowing I'll be going second hand either. DAVE is perfect for headphone system because you can save space and money of headphone amplifier. MSBs top-level DAC is 121K and there are other brands out there offering very expensive options, but the truth is that the vast majority of people will never feel the need to spend that kind of money (even if they could) to eek out that last-minute bit of detail. This latter track is a good track for me to play when listening to new kit as it is basically a drum machine and an acid box and this latter did sound just like a 303 there in the room. The only true way for the end user to know what they prefer is through listening in their own system.
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